On 2/19/11 6:14 PM, Maxim Dounin wrote:
> Hello!
>
> On Sat, Feb 19, 2011 at 12:05:17PM -0500, Jim Ohlstein wrote:
>
> [...]
>
>>> And as far as this indeed affects mailing list and forum,
>>> including people in this particular thread (note several messages
>>> with incorrect configs due to<NAME> being stripped) - I don't
>
> Just a side note: you mail client seems to unable to handle<NAME>
> correctly as well.
Really? Attached are screen shots of the last email I sent which
included several usages of that string. I use Thunderbird/3.1.7 (Mac)
and the mail is sent via Google Apps. Screen captures are attached from
both the sent folder from my client and that of the Google web client.
They look OK to me.
>
>>> consider private reporting to be better way to go.
>>
>> I don't disagree but reporting it is different than making comments
>> such as "forum is awful" without giving specifics. That is hardly
>> helpful.
>
> I was really specific, Jim. I've commented relevant part with
> missed data and wrote that data was eaten by forum. If you think
> that it's not specific - well, sorry.
Again attached is your comment. You said "Just a side note: forum is
awful, it eats data.". No more. Without saying what data and when, it's
hardly what I would consider specific. I've been married for almost 20
years - closer to 25 if you consider both wives ;) - and my experience
is that they have wanted me to "just know" what they're thinking. That's
bad enough but I can't read your mind too. We can agree to disagree as
to how specific your comment really was.
If your commenting has been sent elsewhere then ASSuming that I've read
it is a bad thing. I don't read every message on this list. Some threads
simply do not interest me and I stop reading them after the first email,
or even based on the title of the first one. Subscribing to a mailing
list hardly obligates me to read every message posted to it. Hence why I
said, if there is an issue with the forum that you have commented on and
I have seemed to "ignore" you, contact me directly. It's not that I'm
actually ignoring you, it's that I simply haven't "heard" you. Works in
marriage too.
>
>>> Some more issues in additional to one with<NAME>, in case you are
>>> willing to work on them:
>>>
>>> 1. BB-codes seems to be processed in mailing list messages shown
>>> in forum, thus providing another data damage vector. Example may
>>> be seen in the same thread, in Igor's message:
>>
>> We have gone over this one in the past. The way the forum engine
>> works is that it "sees" anything enclosed in square brackets as
>> bbcode. My choice was to send the messages "as is" with the bbcode
>> or to strip the bbcode. Initially I was stripping the bbcode in
>> emails from the forum until it was brought to my attention that this
>> also stripped necessary information, mostly from regexps. When
>> informed, and at *your* request, I changed it so bbcode is sent in
>> the emails. I can eliminate bbcode entirely, but that is the only
>> "solution", albeit not a great one.
>
> I previously requested the very same thing: to eliminate data
> loss. Current situation is better than it was before the mentioned
> change, but it's still far from ideal.
>
> [...]
>
> Maxim Dounin
>
> p.s. Most of the time I tend to think that best method to resolve
> all forum-to-maillist problems would be to eliminate posting from
> forum to mailing list entirely, but sometimes try to be polite.
Your feelings on this issue have been made known clearly since before
the forum opened. Again, Igor is the final arbiter of this issue since
he owns the "nginx.org" domain. If he wants the two way communication
closed then the forum will wither and die. I would close it in such a
situation since it would serve no purpose. I have little doubt that you
have lobbied him extensively on this issue. As you can see, I prefer the
mailing list myself. However, there are many people, including many who
use the Russian mailing list forum, who prefer to get support via a
forum. I cannot provide the type of technical support that you and Igor
and some other very knowledgeable and smart people provide. Hosting the
forum is a small thing that I can do since nginx has helped me greatly.
As you can see from the attached page from Google Analytics, forum
visits grew steadily over calendar year 2010. The dips are the weekends
so I am guessing that people are often using it at work.
The "bonce rate" is high. That may be that people find it useless, but
it may be that people find the information they are seeking. Either way,
the same would happen on the mailing list archives since they contain
more or less the same information. As I mentioned, we have nearly 4000
registered users. As you can see, most visits are from USA, but Russia
is second, Germany third, UK fourth and China fifth. Russian visitors
are more likely to be returning visitors than are those from USA,
Germany, UK, or China, and Russian visitors have somewhat lower bounce
rate and somewhat higher page views/visit than do those from USA,
Germany, and UK. Ukraine is number six in total visits. Page views per
visit, new vs. returning visits, and bounce rates are similar to those
of Russian visitors. I am guessing that many if not most of these
visitors are availing themselves of pages in the Russian mailing list. I
have not looked at data from other nations in the former USSR, but my
point is that this may be useful to people from many nations. So
solutions to the problems would seem better than cutting off help to
those who want it and find this method better for them. While one
million annual visitors hardly makes this a big site, it does indicate
that there is at least a demand. If you consider that 87% bounce, then
those visitors are responsible for roughly 870,000 out of roughly 1.4
million pages viewed. Extrapolating, the other 130,000 visitors viewed
roughly 530,000 pages or just over four pages per visit. Considering the
number of nginx users worldwide, I think this may be a significant number.
Again, I'm asking for help with the code from anyone who can look it over.
>
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--
Jim Ohlstein
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